May 14 2009
Emma disintegrates, Ticketmaster rises from the ashes…
Wow. After 6 some years of bringing ridiculously expensive shows to China, the company that invented the 3,000RMB ticket in China and was responsible for the incredible weirdness that was Avril Lavigne in the Shanghai Stadium, Backstreet Boys in Nanjing, Kenny G everywhere, the Diesel sponsorship of Maroon 5, the Bjork debacle, the Oasis cancellation and lots and lots of other peaches, is pretty much extinct. Jon Krane, the mastermind behind Emma Entertainment and the man that, to give him credit, was the force behind a number of China firsts (albeit expensive and distinctly unprofitable firsts) resigned yesterday. He sold his company to the Ticketmaster behemoth in November 2007, which may have been the beginning of the end of him. The Radar received the following press release this afternoon:
Effective immediately, Debbie Shon has been appointed Chief Executive Officer of Ticketmaster Entertainment China Holding Co. Ltd. She will partner in the business with Matt Huxley, who will continue in his role as Chief Operating Officer of the Company. Please provide them your full support and commitment as we move forward towards greater success. Jonathan Krane resigned today as President of Ticketmaster Entertainment China Holding Co, Limited, effective immediately. All of Jonathan’s duties in the Company or its subsidiaries and affiliates, including Emma Entertainment (Beijing) Co., Ltd, have been transferred to Debbie. We wish Jonathan well in his future endeavors. On a more personal note, I would like to reaffirm the importance of Ticketmaster China to our worldwide operations. We are excited about everything on the immediate horizon – Ennio Morricone, the Harlem Globetrotters, and of course, The One Festival. These projects, and new initiatives under consideration, will help to consolidate our position as the premiere ticketing and live entertainment company across Greater China. Your continued hard work and dedication are instrumental in this process. I look forward to seeing you all this summer! Sincerely, Eric _____________________________________________ Eric Korman President Ticketmaster (译文) 即时起，Debbie Shon女士被任命为特玛捷娱乐（中国）控股有限公司的首席执行官。她将同Matt Huxley先生一起运作中国的业务，Matt Huxley先生继续担任首席营运官的职责。请大家继续给予他们你们的大力支持和承诺，让我们一起迈向更大的成功。 Jonathan Krane先生辞去了特玛捷娱乐（中国）控股有限公司的总裁一职。所有Jonathan先生在公司的职责，下属和附属公司，包括艾美科技（北京）有限公司，全部转交给Debbie 女士。我们预祝Jonathan先生未来一切顺利！ 我想亲自重申特玛捷中国对我们特玛捷全球运作的重要性。我们对于即将发生的项目非常地兴奋：埃尼奥莫里康内，哈林花式篮球，当然还有完全音乐节。 这些项目以及正在酝酿的一些项目，将帮助我们巩固在大中华区在票务和娱乐方面的突出地位。你们坚持不懈的努力工作和奉献将为我们的成功起到重大的作用。 期待在夏季见到你们每一位！ 致礼， Eric Korman 总裁 特玛捷
Related posts:
And Now China concert fans will find out just how high ticket prices can go, and they thought they were expensive before.
Whoever wrote this failed to see what shows Emma Entertainment put together.
Rolling Stones
Linkin Park
Jon Legend
Beyonce
etc. These artists have been the highlights for international music artists here in China.
Who else has done anyhting on the same level??
Hi Harry
Thanks for commenting. With reference to your point, we agree that Emma were responsible for some creditable China concerts, but we always had issues with the way they went about it. Reference the 4 shows you mention
Rolling Stones – incredibly expensive ticket prices
Linkin Park (1) – very expensive, poorly produced – so much so that anyone in seats cheaper than 600RMB could see/ hear very little. Linkin Park are co-ordinating directly with a sound company for their return because they were so underwhelmed by the production
Jon Legend – Great show, expensive tickets, terrible production
Beyonce – excellent show, well produced, paid for by Chivas.
Emma consistantly overpaid for artists, and underdelivered on production. This isn’t just our opinion – at Music Matters ‘08 in Hong Kong, Jonathan Krane was attacked by experienced industry professionals like Harvey Goldsmith, Michael Chugg etc. for (and I quote) “ruining the touring market in Asia by overpaying so substantially for acts”. We would say that this may have contributed materially to his exit at Ticketmaster.
But, they have done much to open up China as a touring destination because of this willingness to pay, so for that, we should be grateful.
the Radar!
Ok-
So that is your opinion-
Who else has put together any shows on this level so far in terms of international artists?
Hi Harry
I understand what you are saying. No-one in China has done anything that matches the scale/ ambition of Emma and Jon. This has pushed the scene forward, without doubt, and for this, they should be respected.
BUT, our point is that what exactly is the business model? To lose lots of money, while underproducing shows and making the ticket prices reprehensibly expensive. You create little/ no barrier to entry, and you achieve little/ no brand loyalty.
This was never an enduring model, and benefitted no-one but the artists and their agents. Certainly not the Chinese kids that paid 100’s of RMB at the Linkin Park gig not to be able to see/ hear anything.
And to make so many mistakes and errors of judgement?
We will leave it there. Yes, they served a purpose, but we hope the new people coming in will address these problems and channel the investment better…
Those who can’t do-teach or preach…
oh my god harry, what an ass we’ve got here. have you heard of battles or young knives recently? yes, yes, in shanghai.
in terms of bringing international artists, do you want to have 60-year-old rockstars on coke for 2000rmb ? sure if you are over 60 yourself as well, rich and retired, and the word nostalgia comes up to your mind when you hear about that event.
or maybe you prefer to see quality acts that people around the world talk about these days, for a 100kuai-ish ticket ?
personnaly i’m not over 60, and as much as i think many albums from the stones are classics i can’t afford to spend 2000rmb for one gig, in china or elsewhere.
so who do you want to sermon again ?
Your right Fabi-
Arguably the greatest band of all time- The Rolling Stones-
Who really wants to see them???
I believe Debbie Shon has a legal backround…
Not sure if she has worked in the music industry before.
I worked with Debbie and I am not confident she will be able to perform.
Famous classical composer & Morricone & management were very unhappy with Debie Shon!
Apparently it got messy.
Michael
Ticketmaster China is going down.
I heard management is desperately trying to sell the China division. They are in the process of closing down Shanghai operations.
Everyone is leaving.
J
No thats not entirely correct.
Ticketmaster will only close down Shanghai office. They will keep Beijing office running for ticketing.
I did hear that there that their new COO, a young Australian flew back to LA recently and asked for a job @ HQ.
Apparently he does not want to be in China anymore…
Maybe it is because China operations are not doing so well?
JC
Debbie Shon. Ticketmaster China CEO
I have reviewed the resume and checked on the background of Ms Shon. She has never worked in the music industry before maybe this is the reason.
“Debbie Shon’s resume reflects someone who has practiced what I would call a poor quality of practice. She has represented minorities and miscellaneous groups which reflect someone with a poor legal background. She is not a company Lawyer and has no experience running major companies.
Search “Debbie Shon” and you will read up on background as well.
Have you not got better stuff to do then do name search on Debbie Shon?
Who cares about her background.
I have heard so much negative stuff about this person and Ticketmaster management in China now from people in the industry that is is ridiculous. How bad or incompetent can someone be??
I am going to arrange a meeting with Ticketmaster to see what these people are really like.
Also remember she is new first couple of months in the new role- give her break.
JC
Debbie Shon has been appointed Chief Executive Officer of Ticketmaster Entertainment China Holding Co. Ltd. She will partner in the business with Matt Huxley, who will continue in his role as Chief Operating Officer of the Company.
** Since Barry Diller owns Ticketmaster, anyone knows why Debbie was appointed from a very smart man – Barry Diller?
It is interesting that despite the high cost of tickets, people are still buying them – Jonathan has shown that, unfortunately?!?!
Who else has put together any shows on this level so far in terms of international artists?
**
There are various promoters in China and the United States want to bring major American actos to China (from what I hear) that ranges from Azio to SMG
new people coming in will address these problems and channel the investment better…
** Do you know who are/could be these upcoming players
# Harry Huion 20 May 2009 at 9:28 am
Those who can’t do-teach or preach…
**
Given your statement, one might think that you have done large scale concerts – true? As per every professional tech rider, if the promoter doesn’t provide the equipment as requested – the group has no obligations to perform?
prefer to see quality acts that people around the world talk about these days, for a 100kuai-ish ticket ?
**
Maybe the “Beijing Pop Festival” and others like it will dominate the concert scene in China. Various promoters have shared that they want to do a Coachella Festival-like event in China. Of course, getting the government approvals would be key.
Michael MacRitchieon 26 Jun 2009 at 11:19 am
I worked with Debbie and I am not confident she will be able to perform. Famous classical composer & Morricone & management were very unhappy with Debie Shon! Apparently it got messy.
**
Any more info?
John Cappoon 17 Jul 2009 at 12:29 pm
I have heard so much negative stuff about this person and Ticketmaster management in China now from people in the industry that is is ridiculous. How bad or incompetent can someone be??
**
Yet, they are still getting major American artists. They must have the ultimate weapon, lots of money!
Maybe we should find out more about Matt Huxley who is seemingly running the every day operations?
In parting, which promoters/players should we support that look forward to successfully develop the music scene in China?
I dont get it…why can people just speak the truth?
The previous president Jon Krane, the mastermind behind Emma and his entire crew are simply corrupted and retarded. I went to an event by Emma Entertainment and even the box office staffs was selling EMMA work passes to people across the box office…. TICKETMASTER NEEDS A CHANGE !
This company needs internal clean up, and Barry Diller sent an someone with legal background to deliver justice first.
You know Hu
“Harry Hui” or “You Know Hu” – your rants and raves about changes would have more weight if they were accompanied with tangible alternatives or options.
Ticketmaster’s owner, Barry Diller, has a long proven track record of making money and forward-thinking ventures – as noted by his new partnership with Ben Silverman (the recently disposed head of NBC Entertainment).
Given that people have been paying the high ticket prices and poor production values, I look forward to your suggestions on how to motivate concert promoters to change. People here would love to hear of your efforts.
btw: What is the buzz of the Linkin Park concert in Shanghai – how are ticket sales?
Guys,
Maybe all of this stress comes from the following, explains all the internal problems Ticketmaster seem to have. This article was published in Rolling Stone Magazine.
“Lawmakers came out in force against the Ticketmaster/Live Nation merger yesterday as politicians asked the Justice Department to review the potential merger with “great skepticism,” Billboard reports. New Jersey Rep. William Pascrell argued that Live Nation Ticketmaster “would enjoy a virtual stranglehold over the live entertainment industry,” in a letter to the Justice Department that was signed by 50 more bipartisan representatives.
Senator Herb Kohl of Wisconsin, the Chairman of the Antitrust, Competition Policy and Consumer Rights Subcommittee — in a letter also addressed to Assistant Attorney General Christine A. Varney, who will next rule on the pending merger — recommended that the Justice Department approve the merger “only if it finds that it likely will not substantially reduce competition in the concert ticketing and promotion markets.” “Based on our investigation and testimony at our hearing, it is clear that this merger raises serious competitive concerns warranting thorough scrutiny,” Kohl wrote, adding the merger creates overlap and “vertical competition issues.”
The proposed merger would find Ticketmaster, the nation’s biggest ticketing service and owners of Front Line Management and secondary ticketing site TicketsNow, joining up with Live Nation, America’s biggest concert producer. Live Nation, which also owns dozens of amphitheatres and has inked 360 deals with artists like Madonna and Jay-Z, launched their own ticketing service late last year in a move that was expected to create competition in the ticketing market. Instead, the two companies quickly began talks to merge, announcing plans to create a joint company called Live Nation Ticketmaster in February 2009.
“Our concerns are heightened by the fact that Live Nation recently entered into the ticketing business to compete with Ticketmaster. This needed competition will be lost if this merger is completed,” Kohl wrote in February after the merger was announced. “What does Live Nation’s decision to merge with its competitor rather than fight it in the market tell us about any company’s ability to compete with Ticketmaster? If Live Nation can’t compete, who can?”
Both Pascrell Jr. and Kohl mentioned Ticketmaster’s recent fiasco involving Bruce Springsteen, when the ticketing company rerouted consumers to a more expensive secondary tickets site when regular-priced tickets were still available. Ticketmaster blamed the mishap on a technical error, but a “furious” Springsteen and New York Senator Chuck Schumer were quick to lash out against Ticketmaster. As Kohl notes in his letter to Varney, “the problems arising from the Bruce Springsteen … could be a warning sign of things to come should this merger be consummated.”
Here is the Link,
http://www.rollingstone.com/rockdaily/index.php/2009/07/28/politicians-demand-scrutiny-of-live-nation-ticketmaster-merger/
So no matter “Hu” or “What” is said against Ticketmaster in China politicians in States do not want this merger to go through.
This would hurt both Live Nation and Ticketmaster
Hi Jody
Thanks for your comments. Some great information to add to the mix. Actually, we are in the process of writing an article on what the Live Nation Ticketmaster merger would mean for China. In the meantime, your link is perfect…
WOW- I followed your link and it seems that this article drew 21 comments from readers on this issue. 19 of these comments stated that a merger between these 2 companies was a bad move for concert fans.
I agree with Jeff’s comments that Barry Diller is a smart man but he must regret his decision to purchase the secondary ticketing company. This seems to be a fatal mistake for the direction of the company.
If Bruce Springsteen was not so outraged by “the Ticketing fiasco” Ticketmaster and Live Nation might have got away with this merger. It looks dead in the water now as there is now ant trust investigation into the merger which usually means it will never pass.
Maybe this article explains all this stress and tension that seems to be around Ticketmaster at the moment. The stock price is getting hammered and in China issues with permits, relationship issues & cancellations of their recent music festival or did not have confidence to execute when Jon Krane left?
Thank God Split works is bringing in good music to this place, it seems now that Emma is gone and China West -who else is there?
Live Nation has independently failed to deliver in this China with flops like “Live Earth” and “El Divo” and Ticketmaster can’t pull off permits for Linkin Park in Beijing and now this much talked about merger will not pass.
I just want to go and see world class bands here can someone please please bring some one who is original and exceptional.
Thanks
I am posting all the comments from readers in the states to give you an idea of what the public reaction is over this news as well. The comments start from the bottom- There are roughly 35 comments- some are hysterical!
I really don’t think this merger will go through at all. I am very interested to know what this means for China.
Bobby | 7/30/2009, 7:28 pm EST
Not Barry Diller or Irving Avoff but CHINA Ticketmaster CEO has fought with Morricone and now in a legal battle.
Your an Idiot | 7/30/2009, 7:24 pm EST
This comment is in relation to Bobby’s uninformed comment that Barry Diller or Irving Azoff would fight with Talent or Morricone. This is rubbish. Both these 2 have great “people skills” as you call it. Irving Azoff managers high class bands like the Eagles for Chrsit sake. I am sure he knows how “manage” talent
Rascal | 7/30/2009, 7:20 pm EST
I just want to say Ticketmaster can go to hell. This is a greedy company. if you look at the last 10 years you can see how the fees of tickets have doubled and almost trippled. Tickets for $50 available at a meere $90.00. This is one comkpany dominating the entertainment market- Imagine 2 companies of equal stature doing the entire industry. Go Springsteen, Pearl Jam and Morricone- Stand up for the artist and the fans. Knock them off their greedy perch.
Mrs Jack Off | 7/30/2009, 5:27 pm EST
I don’t think the main issue is primarily a question of Ticket prices. I am sure this “new” company would be fair, at least initially. This merger would mean not a single competitor would be able to operate or compete in the music market against this company. Then the music fans are at the mercy of one giant behemoth of an entertainment company calling all the shots.
AEG must be laughing at all of this mess.
Sasha | 7/30/2009, 5:19 pm EST
Well before anyone gets excited. Why doesn’t Rolling Stone speak to Ticketmaster China CEO and Ennio Morricone and get both sides of the story? Publish the results
I would be very surprised that a major multi national company like Ticketmaster would have a CEO that would openly “fight” with “talent” in front of people. I am sure Ticketmaster has enough people skills to at least fight behind closed doors!
Anyway I am of the view that this merger might not be a bad thing. At least initially the ticket prices would remain consistent. The question you would want to ask yourself is do we trust that Live Nation and Ticketmaster would keep prices low??
Jackson | 7/30/2009, 5:03 pm EST
That sounds bad-
An Artist suing Tickemaster sounds like bad timing for the company Every Blog I read about Ticketmaster these sounds like they need some serious PR work.
Maybe a reason why there is such a backlash against them right now?
Bobby | 7/30/2009, 4:56 pm EST
Bruce Springsteen was furious that Ticketmaster had directed Springsteen fans to Ticketaster’s scalpers sight/ secondary ticket site, TicketsNow.
Pearl Jam went against Ticketmaster in the 90’s because they believed that Ticketmaster was creating a Ticketing monopoly
I have heard that Ticketmaster is now being sued by Ennio Morricone.
My friend in Singapore mentioned that Ennio Morricone manager and Ticketmaster CEO were yelling at each other at a Beijing hotel in front of lots of people.
Apparently Ticketmaster CEO did not want to honor contractual payments before Morricone performed.
It was heated and in the end Ticketmaster CEO had to eat humble pie. Apparently this composer is taking legal action against Ticketmaster as the payments in the end were false.
That is all I heard.
Tracy Spacey | 7/30/2009, 11:13 am EST
Tracy you sound Stupid. Do you know what a Monopoly is?
In economics, a monopoly (from Greek monos , alone or single + polein , to sell) exists when a specific individual or an enterprise has sufficient control over a particular product or service to determine significantly the terms on which other individuals shall have access to it.[1] Monopolies are thus characterized by a lack of economic competition for the good or service that they provide and a lack of viable substitute goods.[2] The verb “monopolize” refers to the process by which a firm gains persistently greater market share than what is expected under perfect competition.
Is a Monopoly good for customers?
No because competition is healthy and the ONLY ones to benefit from a Monopoly are the owners of the monopoly. In this case Live Nation & Ticketmaster.
Obama administration might be trying to screw up our health care but they are getting this issue correct.
Tracy Spacey | 7/30/2009, 11:06 am EST
Have we got some religious nuts here “Glod Bless America” “Amen”
Could Live Nation & Ticketmaster be positive at all for music fans?
Mike | 7/30/2009, 11:05 am EST
Just God Dam relieved that Ticketmaster and Live Nation will not happen.
Their is justice in this world. Amen
Mike | 7/30/2009, 11:04 am EST
Just God Dam relieved that Ticketmaster and Live Nation will not happen.
Their is justice in this world. Amen
Pav | 7/30/2009, 11:03 am EST
It is Ennio Morricone.
Old Italian Composer wrote a ton of shit for movies look him up dumb ass.
Stick to your point though.
What is the deal with Morricone?
Another Springsteen or Pearl Jam??
What? | 7/30/2009, 10:58 am EST
What does “God Bless America” have to do with this merger?
Can Rolling Stone organise an interview with Irving Azoff (from Ticketmaster) or Michael Rapino (Live Nation) on this issue??
By the way who is Enio Morricone?
Bobby | 7/30/2009, 10:49 am EST
I am relieved that this merger is being looked at by the ant-trust commission.
It is not good to have one major concert/entertainment source.
I agree with previous comments-could you imagine only having one TV channel to watch, the choice of only one car to drive. The choice of only one type of food to eat?
If there are multiple entertainment sources these companies would try to out do each other and please the customer with excellent service.
If I don’t like Ticketmaster I can go to Live Nation or AEG.
Finally politicians are doing the right thing for the entertainment industry. PHEW
Thank God for Bruce Springsteen who has really made everyone aware of this issue.
I hear that Ticketmaster also has problems with classical composer Ennio Morricone taking legal action against Ticketmaster for a recent trip to Asia.
If this company did not constantly try to “rape” the consumer and “artist” with fees. This merger might have taken place.
God Bless America
hipster resister | 7/30/2009, 6:11 am EST
i mean the first one
hipster resistter | 7/30/2009, 6:10 am EST
that last comment was legitimately paranoid and insane
Jane Max | 7/29/2009, 3:08 pm EST
A merger between these companies would be a HUGE mistake.
SECONDARY TICKET MARKET/TICKETMASTER
a) It is unethical that Ticketmaster owns secondary ticket markets. This only came to light because Bruce Springsteen made such a big deal about what happened. The reality is Ticketmaster has been doing this since they acquired Tickets Now
It is a big myth that Concerts get “Sold” out so quickly through Ticketmaster.
What happens is that Ticketmater advertisers that the show has been sold out. Then Tickets are ONLY available at the Scalpers sight Tickets Now (which Ticketmaster owns )
Imagine trying to buy any product for a limited time only to realize it has been moved to another shop location for 3-4 times the value?? What you don’t realize is that the other shop is owned by the same company that told you about the product in the first place. Same group different shop name
WILL NOT LOWER TICKET PRICES: JUST MAKE THE EXECUTIVES RICHER
B) Live Nation & Ticketmaster are saying that this deal will “Lower ticket prices for Fans” as there is less associated niggle or costs that the public are not aware of.
This is completely untrue, look at every monopoly that has existed have we seen any companies who monopolise the market actually lowering the price of the product?
Just look at what Ticketmaster has done with a Monopoly of the Ticketmarket here in the states. Over the last 10 years “Convenience fees” and “Service fees” have made a $50 ticket available for roughly $70- $80. These charges have been raised to almost 4-5 times that these added fees were 10 years ago.
Ticketmaster and Live Nation are desperate for this merger to go through because both companies will earn far more cash. Then they are saying “trust us” we will lower fees. This is completely not true
CUSTOMER SERVICE WOULD BE TERRIBLE:
C) What would happen if you experience bad customer service where would you go? Competition is healthy. It keeps prices consistent and more importantly guarantees a certain level of customer service because there is always the possibility of the customer going somewhere else.
Music Biz Teacher (yes really) | 7/29/2009, 8:54 am EST
Oops… I meant SHOULDN’T be allowed
Music Biz Teacher (yes really) | 7/29/2009, 8:52 am EST
Anyone who thinks this merger will benefit the consumer is kidding themselves. A monopoly like this should be allowed. Did we learn nothing from the the Clear Channel fiasco?!?!?!?!?!
Cheesecrop | 7/29/2009, 7:50 am EST
I cannot help but believe you are further from the truth when you say ticketmaster & live nation merging would be a good thing. If they tie down the market at all of the best venues they will have the ability to charge whatever the heck they feel like, & you’ll be stuck paying for it.
Yes, I know they’ll be people out there saying “that’s the way it’s always been”. This is obvious. It’s also obvious that in a true free market, w/all the anti-trust legislation working correctly, it stops being an issue. I think recent affairs in this country show nobody’s been minding the store, so to speak, regarding this.
Deep down inside, I hope I am wrong regarding this merger. It would be a pleasant suprise to see the merger followed by a substantial drop in prices. Judging by recent times, what I just said seems like a daydream.
Chris | 7/28/2009, 10:53 pm EST
Where were the politicians when Pearl Jam needed them back in the mid-90s? Now they decide to come out and prevent this merger?
MR | 7/28/2009, 7:37 pm EST
This sounds a lot like what microsoft went through. live nation merging with ticketmaster is the best thing. tickets will be lower for everyone. Next up for live nation is AEG.
Doesitreallymatter | 7/28/2009, 6:24 pm EST
To the poster, yeahhh Your GOPtude, so bitter. Cannot turn the page can you? Did you not get enough foxnews for breakfast? Allowing ticketbastard and livenation to merge would be a form of forced on the consumer ticket communism courtesy of Ticketbastard, they already make it impossible to get tickets at most box offices until day of show and required to pay more on day of show. One is forced to pay their fees if you attend a show and have no choice but to purchase thru them. Kinda like the Soup Nazi, no reduced fees for you today, no good seats for you today as well.
Take off your R hat and chill, you are uptight.
yo | 7/28/2009, 6:17 pm EST
They need to get ticket sales separate from ownership of venues and separate with deals with artists
Hoss | 7/28/2009, 5:10 pm EST
Pearl Jam had this right back in ‘95 when they testified before Congress about the Ticketmaster monopoly, but it fell on deaf ears because politicians would lose out on corporate contributions to keep getting re-elected. Plus, no other bands had the cajones to jump in the fight and speak up. Where was U2, Bruce Springsteen, the Rolling Stones, etc.? Nowhere because they didn’t care because they were still getting paid. All Pearl Jam was arguing is that Ticketmaster should be charging the same ticket fee regardless of the act. BUt Ticketmaster changes the fee to bank off the act. Hell, I’m still trying to figure out why I have to pay Ticketmaster $2.50 to print tickets using my own printer. WTF?
Trav | 7/28/2009, 4:04 pm EST
I genuinely believe the only reason any of these political officials “care” is because they somehow stand to lose money from this merger. Why else would they give a sh*t?
the jon | 7/28/2009, 2:52 pm EST
It’d be a great time for Pearl Jam to climb back in the ring with ticketmaster….wheres Eddie Vedder when we need him
New Artist | 7/28/2009, 2:08 pm EST
and so the rape of the fans begin with ridiculous service fees. Goodbye free market.
Brent | 7/28/2009, 1:58 pm EST
@yeahhh
Hey genius, exactly what you described, is what those “left wing idiots” are trying to prevent. They are trying to prevent monopolies that eliminate competition. If you eliminate competition, you eliminate choice. And then everyone *will* be driving the same car. Or, in this case, purchasing tickets for live events from a single company.
Sure. | 7/28/2009, 1:24 pm EST
All of you like the “easier said than done” comments around here, don’t you?
yeahhh | 7/28/2009, 1:09 pm EST
So what is the point in trying? If there is never going to be any competition, what’s the point? So a lot of people like Coke. Coke makes enough products to satisfy everyone. If Pepsi goes out of business, that is there problem. I love Mountain Dew, but I don’t think I love it so much that I want my grand children to give up 40% of a pay check to keep it around.
20s | 7/28/2009, 1:06 pm EST
um…just don’t buy their tickets…you don’t HAVE to go to those concerts, and the artists don’t HAVE to perform at those amphitheaters. If you don’t like the price, DON’T BUY IT. That’ll knock them down a peg, because without people buying their tickets, they don’t have a business. We don’t need the government stepping in just because a bunch of people are willing to pay the higher prices. Obviously, since people are paying it, they don’t think it’s too high. If they do, then they just need to stop paying. That’ll bring it back down. It’s simple economics.
me | 7/28/2009, 1:04 pm EST
yea, i want to live in a world that allows monopolies. And we’ll be driving only those red cars because two car companies merged and eliminated the rest, and we’d only wear those blue shirts because one factory took over the rest, and we’ll only be eating from one restaurant, because that one was “more successful that others”. And that one store, it’ll probably be walmart.
noooooo | 7/28/2009, 1:03 pm EST
I think this is just what prevents us all from driving the same car and wearing the same clothes… fostering competition has always been part of American politics, without antitrust laws we’d all be eating at McDonalds and drinking Coke.
yeahhh | 7/28/2009, 12:42 pm EST
Some people are more successful than others. Deal with it. Fucking left wing idiots want everyone to be “treated” (paid) the same. They have a name for that….COMMUNISM.
In 20 years we’ll all be driving red cars with blue shirts on, going to one place to eat, shopping at one store. We will all be either filthy rich or piss poor. I hope you will all be happy then.
OMG!!!
They have gone crazy in the states over this whole merger.
Some comments could be toned down a notch as some people just sounded a little paranoid or overly hyper sensitive. It is easier to follow on the Rolling Stones magazine web page.
China was mentioned but I couldn’t quite follow with all the comments.
Josh
I just want to say first of all I love this site and it is run well…
Also found an article by Time magazine which is an excellent summary of Ticketmaster and Live Nation merger.
http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1903447-2,00.html
The article is balanced gives historical perspective but also explains why fans and artists are very much against Ticketmaster.
Enjoy!
J
“Melon” – to the best of my knowledge, Barry Diller’s ownership is to Emma Entertainment and not secondary ticketing companies. With Ben Silverman (just disposed NBC Entertainment CEO) on his team utilizing his “new media” skills, hope might be just in front of us. With “new media” having more traction because of the increased sophistication and access in China (albeit with tangible censorship issues), Barry Diller’s direction is an appropriate one (IMO). You asked a good question of who can/could/would/will provide competition to Ticketmaster? What happened to other viable entities such SMG (Shanghai Media Group), Azio and others are stepping into this market? Through my conversations, I know they have long requested the possibilities of bringing high-profiled American acts – is there not a successful business model? This has become more important since I have talked to people directly involved with producing the Live Earth Shanghai, a definite “Extremely Poor Cousin” concert done in front of the Pearl Tower with track acts (except for Sarah Brightman) in front of appromximately 3-4,000 people – where the other concerts were (generally) 10,000-25,000+ people. You’ve asked to see “world-class bands” and/or someone who is original and exceptional. These type of artists want to come and (seemingly) there are promoters (i.e. SMG, Azio, etc.) that are trying to get them to China. What’s missing – a working and successful model.
“jody” – for those in the U.S., audiences and artists (Bruce Springsteen, U2, Pearl Jam and others) are up in arms while forcing tickets (for most concerts) to go down. Barry Diller and Irving Azoff are “old school” music people that support the artists as an expression of their love of music – as oppose to most who are in the music biz out to make money. A true fact is that without competition, prices will go up (“Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely”).
Side Note: Many artists (through their agents) often ask for outrageous fees that they received when the times were good. Since promoters and artists have gotten away with gouging the public, why should they change? Both parties are having problems dealing with reduced fees and profits. A past model in the U.S. saw the breakup of monopolies separating film companies from owning theaters to owning the talent agencies.
Just to provide some comparison between prices in China vs. China, the next posts will provide links for your comparison. I tried to place all the info on one post, but I get the message that it was a “lttle too spammy” and was refused – so bear with me.
Since I wasn’t allowed to list what ticket prices are of prominent groups in the U.S. (some of whom have performed in China), listed below are some sample ticket prices.
Southern California events (http://www.cprpt.com/AEGLive/10002/cphostredirect.asp?sid=5000118&vid=0&lid=2194808&rt=0&o=1&mk=21329960&mv=1002&eid=jql@earthlink.net&SN=CP&oid=10002&slvor=5000118.2194808.0.1.0.21329960&oid=10002&mv=1002), Van”s
John Legend Concert Ticket Prices
John Legend Concert @ Madison Square Garden, New York New York(http://www.thegarden.com/events/john-legend-809.html),
Aretha Franklin Concert Tix Prices (http://www.thegarden.com/events/aretha-franklin-0909.html)
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame Concert Ticket Prices
Bruce Springsteen & The E Street Band, Simon & Garfunkel, Crosby, Stills, Nash & Friends, Paul Simon, Stevie Wonder , Eric Clapton, Aretha Franklin, Metallica and U2
(http://www.thegarden.com/events/rock-and-roll-hall-of-fame-1009.html)
Hi Jeff
I think you hit the nail on the head. There are too many people looking to the live arena to make up for the lost revenue in the other areas of the music industry. It seems a little optimistic to expect ticket sales to make up for the millions of CDs that aren’t being bought now, but that’s the only way that fat executive salaries will continue to be paid.
We argue on an ongoing basis that people have to come to terms with the fact that the music industry is now smaller than it was during the “Golden Age”, that the money supply just isn’t what it once was. Yes, there are some artists that are being paid millions of $$’s for live performances, but that the majority are just making a living.
China is still very much a developing market. As we have tried to highlight, China already has its own strong (if limited) domestic market. Witness Mayday selling out 2 consecutive days at the Hongkou stadium (60,000 tickets) at pretty high prices.
International artists need to adjust their prices/ expectations when they come here – Avril Lavigne in an 50,000 capacity stadium only selling 10k tickets, Celine Dion in the same stadium not even selling half the tickets, Linkin Park in a 26,000 capacity stadium and not selling it out in 2007, but then returning to play the 50,000 capacity. Where are the 30k extra fans going to come from? Surely it would be better for these artists to come, sell out the venue many times over (at reasonable prices), create huge demand and hype and then return to bigger venues, possibly at slightly higher prices.
Thanks for everyone’s participation in the discussion. Who are you Jeff and what is your interest in the market?
looking to the live arena to make up for the lost revenue in the other areas of the music industry
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Publications such as Pollstar provides a good, though not a comprehensive, overview of the live music industry.
money supply just isn’t what it once was
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Agree. However, with concert promoters still charging outrageous prices that concert-goers are still buying – there’s no reasons for them to change in China, YET. It has changed in the U.S. and elsewhere
majority are just making a living.
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Pollstar has written on how certain types of groups have become successful concert draws – a fast-declining ability of upcoming/present artists in this day of “American Idol” that have no experience of providing a great concert experience.
China is still very much a developing market
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True – but U.S./International artists have been successful in areas such as Istanbul Turkey (Linkin Park) and other areas that are more “primitive” than China (market-wise).
International artists need to adjust their prices/ expectations when they come here
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Agree. Many artists have lowered expectations when touring China, as noted that they are always considered ONLY at the end of their tour (if it happens great, if not – nothing lost). Playing at larger venues makes sense if the ticket prices are adjusted accordingly – making the artist and promoter happy (hopefully) in a market such as China.
I’m interested in the market because of various requests extended to me to connect American artists in China – along with Chinese artists in the United States.
Hmm – since nobody is reporting on the “buzz” that exists with the upcoming Linkin Park concert in Shanghai – could this mean that the promotion has been nominal and ticket sales “light?”
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