A couple of days ago, we came across these two 1/2 hour videos, entitled Music in China, produced by a new company called Bonlive. According to their profile:
Blue Ocean Network (BON TV) is a brand new, pioneering television network producing a wide range of objective English language content bringing the human side of China to homes across the Western world. BON goes live on air in Summer 2009 in the United States.
There’s more, but we worry it might distract you from the really interesting bit, which is the content, here represented by the overly long “Music Scene in China”.
We must preface our opinion by saying that we only managed to struggle through the first 15 minutes of the first video, so our criticisms may be a little unfounded, but based on the first 15 minutes
- who the hell are these guys? (Tony Webb, Managing Director (of WHAT???))
- why are they being interviewed?
- why did they make this?
- what does it achieve?
- who is it aimed at?
It is anodyne, uninsightful, patronizing and pretty embarrassing, if we are being kind. If anyone can stay the course, please feel free to precis for the rest of us.
Without further ado, I present Easy China on the “Music Scene in China”. My good Lord…
PART 1
PART 2
Go to town, boys and girls…
Video 2: “If there’s one thing I’ve noticed about music here, it’s the vast number of venues available… 100-150 venues here in Beijing.”
And we’re over in 10 seconds.
Ha. I can’t watch the rest.
Hmmm… have no chance to watch the vids, as my speakers are crab, but…
@Pete: Actually there are around 150 venues in Beijing, though they are not rock music related. There had been a market analysis by the Australian Trade Commission:
http://www.austrade.gov.au/ArticleDocuments/1418/China-Entertainment-Workshop-Beijing.pdf
which took a look at the potential for Australian artists (from DJ to music orchestra to rock bands) to perform in Beijing…
damn I need speakers to watch that videos … (search)
noobsX10
10 noobs
who the fuck are these fags?
At, Max: Meant to say “100-150 live music venues.”
Other gems from Part 2:
- Tony Webb babbles about “restrictions on electric music” at large venues in Beijing, only traditional stuff is allowed, he claims. (Dubious.)
- The host, Andrew Tate, plugs thebeijinger.com (while borderline-winking into the camera)
- Jim Blackburn, bassist for Boy #6, says “Monday night at 7:30, you can catch a live show anywhere in Beijing.” (Not really.)
- Blackburn mentions D-22, estimates the age to be “3-4 years old,” while mentioning the live music awards that they’ve racked up; also praises their variety (University night, jazz, metal and punk bands) and “down to earth” value.
- Tate mentions the old Yugong Yishan, calls the new version “neon-y,” Blackburn agrees and labels it “too polished.
- Tate thinks that the venues where bands perform should match the bands’ style (aka: grunge and hip hop artists shouldn’t play at well-lit clubs, for it “doesn’t gel so well.”
- Webb babbles about a venue that is “a great value” without mentioning its name
- Back to Yugong: they comment on its good sound and structure while criticizing it’s vibe: “It doesn’t feel very organic,” said Blackburn. “It just seems like they tried to improve on a lot of things that weren’t really a problem before,” he added without elaborating.
- Topic goes to festivals, where they talk of canceled performances. Tate personally blames Bjork for the government’s cautions. Mentions how huge Strawberry Festival was, jokes about the name, etc.
- When asked about MIDI this year, Blackburn and Webb don’t really know how to respond: Webb eventually recalls about this year’s event something being “in a park somewhere,” but clearly didn’t know about MIDI Heroes.
- Blackburn mentioned a “pop festival’s” (Modern Sky) cancellation of foreign bands before the holiday
Ugh. Seems like this Tate guy grabbed two dudes from the street who are marginally affiliated with the music scene and did an interview without doing any preliminary research, resulting in a threeway clusterfuck of ignorance. He’s clearly not a journalist, for he keeps skipping around and going on tangents while adding his own inchoate opinions.
And that’s just the first 1/3.
@Pete: please keep that going
so I can read what they say, hehe
2/3:
- More talk of cancellations at Modern Sky. Foreign bands were disappointed at not playing, according to Blackburn’s impromptu discussions with them on the scene.
- Webb says that one of the problems facing the music scene here is a lack of communication, citing that people don’t seem to know about events until they’ve already passed: blames lack of English-language media (cites only two expat mags)
- Tait says that there are no radio or TV shows promoting these events (calling the radio a “black hole” about modern music)
- Webb incoherently rambles about box clubs (Babyface) and about techno and wonders why live bands don’t play at places like that
- Blackburn does music “just for kicks,” he says
- Webb discusses how his company using music as “team building” without mentioning specifics about his company (intercut with visuals of people drumming). I think it’s corporate training using drums (or something).
- Blackburn talks about both expats and Chinese taking music lessons in shops
And then the video cuts out (about 16:00). Thank God. That was excruciating. I feel dumber for having blogged that.
Thanks for the summary Pete. This will save the rest of us from the pain. I have to say, I’ve never seen anything like it in my life…
AND THE WORST THING IS, these videos launch as soon as you open the page. Now that is super annoying….
Don’t say we aren’t good to you. We’ve found out more about Tony Webb, Managing Director of…
http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/articles/mag-bj/peeps/tony-webb-toning-drum-school/
Tony Webb runs a African drum circle in China
http://www.cityweekend.com.cn/beijing/articles/mag-bj/peeps/tony-webb-toning-drum-school/
Boy number 6 is a band with no Chinese member (all members are from UK, US, and Australia), and they don’t have a profile or group or musician page on douban, and I can’t find any report of them in Chinese. All I found was a myspace site in English
HAHAHA, oh yeah these are real experts to comments on the Chinese music scene
(Notice when they introduce the two, the host quickly mention it and went onto the next…. we got blah blah blah, NEXT)
Also that Jim blackburn person have no idea what he’s talking about, 1) most Chinese indie bands sing in English, there’s probably a larger percentage of them singing in English than in Chinese and 2) there isn’t the relaxed attitude of having fun, and that is why Chinese bands can’t break through. If anything it’s the opposite, cause a lot of these Chinese indie bands are influenced by Oasis or Coldplay, and they think that is “indie”, and they want to be the next Oasis or Coldplay. So they don’t really have a good understand on indie music in general and havn’t gotten the proper culture studied. Basically they just want to be like the next great alternative band in China, like the next Coldplay
Egats. Thanks for the followup info, guys.
If anyone has the stomach to sit through another craptastic BON production, venture below (this one is on the Qingdao-Beijing rock connection).
http://bonlive.com/VideoShow.php?id=815
I’m gonna use Tony Web – managing director of Toning drum as my stage name when I start my rock band
I saw their show on blogging with Jeremy from Danwei in it.
I got through the first half but couldn’t face the play button on the second video. Sorry. I read in the comments that they mentioned some venues later on, but 45 minutes on the Music Scene without mentioning a single band by name and plugging on about ‘The West’ and ‘The East’ etc. Too painful.
Wow. A little late to the party here, but this is jaw-droppingly bad. I don’t have too much to add to what’s been written above really. Just, wow.
Blows Andy and I’s podcasts right out of the water
Ouch. Some fair comments but others just seem a bit mis-directed.
I have to say, most of your comments come from a somewhat bias point of view, both having intimate knowledge of China and the Chinese music scene itself.
You need to bear in mind that BONtv and EasyChina are trying to connect with a very broad range of people that have interest in learning about all topics and areas of life in china. It is not our mandate to focus on very specific subjects, but to give a very general over view. Hence the questions you describe as being “bland”.
Also, please note that this show was not about one particular music scene in Beijing, but did try to give an overview of music in China in general. Hence both our guests were equally appreciated and valuable on the show, both bringing different ideas and backgrounds, as they did. EasyChina doesn’t aim for experts, but just people who have knowledge and opinions on whatever aspect of life they are interested in.
Still, I do appreciate your comments, and hope you can understand and appreciate mine. But if anyone has constructive comments or suggestions for future shows, please feel free to contact me directly at andrewtait 88 @ hotmail . com. I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Andrew Tait
Boy No. 6 was a band started by expats, actually one of the members is a friend of the contributor to China Music Radar — ahem (you know who you are). They’re nice guys and started the band just cause they liked to play, but I wouldn’t consider them China music experts.
So before we rip him completely, he did, not so eloquently try and counter-balance the complete clueless oh so ex-pat “too-loud” guy. The person who really should be shot is the host. . . who is still dwelling in his “they will never be as good as us” attitude and trying to direct all the questions in that direction.
Thanks for coming on Andrew. Apologies if you think the comments are harsh – some of them may be a bit OTT – but I think the general gist is that you shouldn’t purport to be an expert on a subject if you plainly aren’t. There was an insultingly small amount of knowledge around the table, yet people that view the video might take it at face value.
You give people a misguided perceptionof the music industry in China and you really don’t do us (as the industry) any favours.
Good luck with the Bonlive project.
At Andrew Tait:
As a journalist myself, I always try to educate myself about the topics at hand before I interview people. Not doing so is bad enough when an interview subject calls you out for not doing preliminary research and proceeds to enlighten you, but when both the interviewer and interviewees are in the dark, however well-intentioned, it gives people inchoate and misguided views.
Five minutes on Google before the tape started to roll would given you a wealth of resources on both the Beijing and Shanghai music scenes, as well as given you a skeletal framework on things like expat magazines, radio stations and the fact that there aren’t 150 live music venues in Beijing.
That’s just sloppy journalism.
As per aiming at “people who have knowledge or opinions on whatever aspect of life that they’re interested in,” everyone has opinions, but it doesn’t make them coherent or worth listening to.
This is an insult! An insult! An insult! Pete, tell this man how to journalize!
Graver insults have never been levied against something so important.
Thank god for self-righeous wrath to keep us all in check. Thank god for well-trained commentators.
Pete, keep being an entertaining shit head.
But I think Pete makes a really good point here. Here is the deal Andrew, as someone from China, I see and hear a lot of the so-call reports about China, everything and anything from the music scene to the air to the people to blah blah blah… I’m not saying a lot of these reports are inaccurate (even though I really do feel that way). I am however saying, a lot of these situation are kind of complicated, and are unique situations built up from a really complex culture.
And I see these reporters whom lived in China for 2 or 3 years and talk about China with such authority (that may or may not be you, I don’t know you, I just say in general). But really, did you grow up in China as a kid? did you live through the various evolution of the Chinese society and had many interesting personal stories to tell about it? Do your parents work for the government or do you work for the government yourself? Then do you really understand what makes a young person in China wanting to pick up a guitar and make music? Do you understand the pressure he would have faced from his family, whom ever since he was a kid, would do just about anything for him (it’s hard to explain the Chinese parent children relationship here, but trust me, it’s complicated and unique), and is probably now heart broken to the point of wanting to disown him after they hear he wants to be a musician. Do you understand the various pressure, gossip, and dirty looks he would have faced from other people (from family members to neighbors to people on the street) whom, like most people in China, doesn’t understand the value of underground art and expression, and have no interest in understanding?
NO?
well, then the least you can do is to find someone that lived through those situation to talk about it, to make people understand what prompted young kids in China to make art, thus with that, gave birth to the music scene in China today, the underground art culture. Maybe get someone (expat or Chinese) that help out with the underground art scene in China, that made some contribution and have truely help these kids in China to express themselves.
NO?
(member of a expat rock band and the head of a drum company)
(and the talks are like: oh look like China have a lot of venues for music, I was suprised ….)
(and I mean, all these guys on here: Pete, Helen, Archie, all fit my above two descriptions, and they’re all around, they arn’t hard to get or to invite? It’s not like they would demand like huge LCD monitor screen backdrops and backup dancers and M&M’s in the dressing room with the red ones removed ….. I, I really don’t have a explanation here beside sloppy journalism, help me out)
I guess what bugs me is, to a lot of the reporters, cities in China are just like Chicago, or NYC, or SF, with a “mysterious” and intrigue vibe, “look at these guys! look at how strange and interesting”, a vibe that most wants to get to know (but obviously most don’t truely understand cause they havn’t gone through those situation) so reporters capitalized on that …. “oh! let me tell you” Which is fine, if there’s any sort of efforts in even trying to understand the culture around it or the motivation behide it…… Most are on the outside looking in I’m afraid, and having you guys present these on the surface, skimmed over, mis-informed information but acting like you own that shit is really not doing us kids in China any good, sorry.
And I understand your previous argument about “this is a show aim for beginners”, but you are presenting a fallacious argument here. The logic is that – this is a show aim at beginners, thus we bring in guests that have little to do with the music scene in China (to take a easy on the beginners? I don’t know?), and thus you guys think we’re only scratching the surface of music scene in China.
Obviously that’s a fallacy because who is to say people that have a good understanding of the music scene in China is going to present a very complex lesson here? I’m SURE all these guys can give an introduction to the Chinese music scene that is the right foundation for further discovery. Basic, but accurate and well informed, so the interested can go on further discoveries themselves.
But that didn’t happen, so again, I don’t have any explanation beside sloppy journalism, help me out here
I will gladly continue to be a shit head, Morgan, when people disseminate misinformation concerning the industry in which I work. Everyone loses when that happens.
Great points, Louis. And thanks for the props.
All the comments made have been noted, and in the future I will continue to work to improve the show and myself as a host.
@Pete
With regards finding suitable guests, would you like to be a guest on the show, with regards the topic of Media (as in TV, newspapers, internet etc.) in China. You are very welcome. Please contact me at andrewtait 88 @ hotmail. com if you wish to do so.
And that applies to everyone. We are constantly seeking engaging, experienced and interesting guests to be hosts. If you have any particular field of China that you are interested in, please just drop me a line. I look forward to hearing from you.
What a creepy loser! Is this Andrew Tait the guy that was allegedly involved with a dodgy recruiting agency in TongZhou district of Beijing? He used to go out with Evelyne Letawe then had a nervous breakdown when she dumped him?
Andrew Tait is the main Moderator for thebeijinger apparently.
Gotta give it to Andrew, he handles the replies professionally and calmly while seeking to improve in questioned areas.
He made the offer……… step up to the plate guys!
Meh, as the prior comments imply, it is very unprofessional to do a interview show without the research, so I don’t know what this “it’s very professional to handle it calmly” comes from. One can also make statements such as “it’s very professional to speak softly….” and the list goes on and on.
It is up to the journalist to get the most qualified people to go comment on the scene, and yes, some of these people in the area will be difficult to deal with or may not want to go on the show or may not have time right away. It is up to the journalist to think of ways or be persistent. Otherwise, don’t do a discussion on that topic or don’t be a journalist, or do unprofessional journalism, those are all fine choices…
It’s true this guy is a real creep. He is the moderator on thebeijinger as Huanchu and if he doesn’t like some girl or they won’t date him he posts their phone numbers and says they are sex hotlines. He posted my number as an Aussie sex line.
He’s not a REAL journalist. He is in China and is a native English speaker. Say no more.
This is the website that is run by Michael Wester and moderated by this guy Andrew Tait:
http://www.thebeijinger.com/forum/2010/08/27/faggy-spineless-piss-made-youths
What a disgrace. How can this possibly exist in China?
Apparently this guy Lizard King is actually an orchestral musician who often plays in concerts at Poly Theatre and so on.
The most racist and abusive guy on that forum is this neo-nazi Canadian guy called Chad Pearson who like Andrew Tait also works for Global Times. They are good friends apparently. Why do they even bother to come to China if they are so racist and anti-China and so hateful against Chinese people? I guess they can’t get real jobs back in their home countries or they are running from something back home.