No, not at all I just pointed out that I was from the USA where most live band bars are in the most seedy locations and that Louis being a Chinese who moved to Canada and through his native Chinese instincts might have been looking for love in all the wrong places.

C’mon, this guy is so infatuated with Cold Fairy land to the point of being mistaken for an Asian teeny-bopper girl day dreaming about Andy Lau. How dare they soil CFL’s image by playing in a bar that is located near hookers and hawkers and how dare they allow that other band to play…Are you kidding me?

Maybe its my American sense of satire/cynicism that mistakenly led you to believe that I am ultra nationalistic, I’m not! I’m an Asian-American born in Philly 3rd generation American (Philadelphia -maybe that’s where the cynicism comes from) I’ve lived in China for over 5 years am fluent in Chinese culture/language.

If guilty of anything, then I am guilty of judging this guy based on the model of other American guys. In other words, c’mon dude get a life and stop being an adult male groupie of some band named Cold Fairy land….

And to the other poster, Rubie may be a lot of things in your opinion but she hires bands to play at her bars and pays them for it, thus supporting the live music scene in Shanghai. Maybe other places do it better or not, that’s just personal preference. But to go out and hire a band gives them visibility and a few bucks in their pocket. In my opinion, that counts for something.

Music is music, there is a difference between cover bands and Noc’s band. At least Noc performs the music from his own interpretation not just the way it sounds on the CD. Again, whether you like it or not is just personal interpretation.

Most of the paying people at the bar that night where there to see Noc. I didn’t see many paying customers there to see CFL, Louis included. Did he order anything substantial to support the bar that finacially supports the band? No, he just bitched about how his beloved CFL where too good to play at Rubie’s that night. Again, very Chinese; order 1 drink and take up space at a business. Call me an ugly American if you will but at least, I paid my money to suport a band that I like…Can you say Waaaay – Ohhh – Noc sure can

Tserin seems to be willing to discount Louis experience attending a show in China by a Chinese band because Louis is Chinese (ignoring the fact that Louis identifies himself as being Canadian) . Tserin’s implication seems to be that had Louis been American, he would be better able to appreciate the experience. Fascinating.

Being ignorant of what indie music is suppose to mean, I am tempted to assume from Tserin that it means a process of conforming to an American, or Western, cultural experience or expectation. I’m not sure if Cold Fairyland would share this view of their music – that is being essentially an imitation of something American.

I think people are confused about a couple of things. I mean, what is a music scene?

When we talk about ‘the scene’ usually we mean bands and performers who create their own new material. They make strictly original material.

You cannot include bar cover bands or glorified KTV in that. Even skilled Jazz Musicians don’t count unless they are gigging their own new material. That’s all a very different scene. I dunno, lets call it the cabaret entertainment scene or whatever.

If you understand this, then you understand what helps or hinders a ‘scene’. There could be 100 bars all putting on live music, but if it’s all cover bands, musak or DJ’s then it doesn’t make a blind bit of difference to the scene.

Yuyintang are the heart of the scene because they have a venue style set up where the focus is on the bands. Also, places like 0093 rehearsal spaces are vital. Both these organisations promote new bands at the grass roots level and are involved in the community. You could see 20 different bands through YYT in a month as well as good shows by more experienced bands.

Of course, the situation is not ideal and many now-famous bands all over the world had to play a bunch of wierd shows when they started etc etc …but – no one should be talking about either of the Melting Pot bars or Ruby as some kind of scene supporter or saviour. That’s nuts talk, that is.

Most places that I’ve been to to see bands (I’m from the USA)are usually in the worst areas of town. But then you trash Ruby’s for it without knowing the real details. She is one of the hero’s in Shanghai regarding live music/musicians. She does her best to bring an ecclectic group of music/musicians together at her venues. Point in case Noc, (the old guy you refer to) Being Chinese I guess you still don’t get it either. You’re at a show on NYE (on Hengshan Road nonetheless) not the Shanghai Conservatory of Music. I’ve been with him at all Chinese gigs where nobody shows any emotion, he’s just doing what he does best to get the crowd going. Plus he was invited as the MC that night. I thought it kind of pretentious of that chick from CFL telling him “you’ve had enough”

Cold Fairyland where good, I wouldn’t say great, maybe not my type of music. All are great mucisians but I just don’t buy into this China made Indie crap in that just because it comes from China that we should pay special attention to it. I always thought that if the music was good then it spoke for itself regardless of where it originates.

Don’t mis-understand this post as being hostile. It’s not indended that way, its just that I feel that you really don’t understand the Shanghai music scene and you might want to take off you CFL #1 Fan hat when trying to report on a show.

Shanghai is not Beijing when it comes to live music. There are so many fickle consumers in SHA that you need to try to cover all your bases when promoting a music bar. Plus, it’s a business and no matter who plays that night, the goal is to fill the seats.

Thanks to Ruby for at least trying and thanks to Noc for being himself and having fun. With music these days it seems that more people are trying to find the right “look” to make money and fame than to just play music and have fun. CFL kind of looks like one of those marketing executive put together bands to me.